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Stealth Stop and Take Profit

October 20, 2011 by Shaun Overton 9 Comments

The paranoia of retail forex traders is legendary. Some of the more popular sites like forexpeacearmy.com focus heavily on the idea of a scam or someone trying to rip you off. The idea extends to the brokers as well. Traders frequently blame their losses on broker manipulation or games.

This undoubtedly happens. I worked as a broker, so I definitely am aware of the most common techniques to manipulate accounts. If you feel like a broker targeted you individually, then you should ask, “Am I worth targeting?”

If your account balance is under $50,000, I assure you that the answer is a definitive no. Think about the costs involved paying a dealer to sit around and pick on trader Johnny. Does it make sense to pay a dealer to steal $20 from Johnny’s $2,000 mini account whenever the market gets near his stop loss? The broker has bigger fish to fry. He doesn’t know or care that Johnny has an open trade.

Market manipulators look at the entire order book or at the whales. If you’re floating a fat, juicy loss of $50,000 and you’re dumb enough to tell the dealer that your pain threshold is 1.3850 (the stop is the public pain threshold), then he will do everything in his power to goose the market to 1.3850. He knows you’ll exit and lock in the loss. Your pain is his gain. That is when stop hunting pays.

Alternatively, and this is where most retail traders feel victimized, is that 300 different clients all put stop orders within 5 pips of each other. These order clusters happen very frequently, especially near round numbers like 0 and 50. The market appears to magically dip into the cluster, set off all the orders and then return to where it was 10 minutes later.

It’s not an accident and it’s not magic. If you knew that you could force 300 traders to eat their losses and you would make a pile of money doing it… the decision makes itself. You either push the market into the cluster or you shouldn’t be trading.

Traders that feel targeted turn to EAs with so-called stealth stops and take profits. It’s a common programming request that we receive for making custom EAs. Instead of sending the stop loss and take profit to the broker, an Expert Advisor remembers what their values are. Whenever the market hits your exit criteria, the EA sends a request to exit at the market price. The perceived advantage is that nobody knows, including the broker, the price at which you desire to exit.

The major disadvantage to this technique is that you subject your orders to extra lag time between the exit signal and the time when the exit occurs. My personal experience is that stealth execution nearly always results in poorer execution. The price received is usually worse than would have happened by placing the order with the broker and eliminating the lag time.

The only plausible reason for using stealth stops is if your trade size puts you in the “juicy” category from the dealer’s perspective. If you are a fat target, then you should consider placing your account at a larger brokerage where you don’t stand out as much. You also should consider reducing the position size – large losses frequently result from overleveraging a trade.

Filed Under: MetaTrader Tips, NinjaTrader Tips, Trading strategy ideas

Comments

  1. phumlani says

    June 11, 2012 at 03:19

    Hi,

    That was a very interesting read you posted!

    Now I don’t regret trading using my EA! On the EA inputs I can see the option for the stealth sl and tp. The EA works fineI want to have my own stop loss inputs. My programmers left it nil as they weren’t part of what I requested them to do. My question to you it that; do you know the perimeters to set stealth sl? e.g if it set to 1, what does that stand for?

    Kindly,
    Phumlani, SA

    Reply
    • Shaun Overton says

      June 11, 2012 at 10:04

      Hi Phumlani,

      You have to pre-program an EA to work using stealth stops and take profits. If they’ve already programmed it to work that way, then you should only need to enter the number of pips to use for the SL or TP. If you want a 20 pip stop loss, you should only need to enter in “20”.

      Reply
  2. Edwin Jose Palathinkal says

    February 20, 2013 at 22:25

    I fear I am being targeted by my market maker. I started with 8K USD and now I am at 10K USD in 1 month using around 70 trades in an “ECN” account. And now orders routinely almost make it to profit before retracing to the stop loss. I don’t scalp. I ride 1/2 a day long trends using an EA. I tried hiding my take profit and leaving my stop loss revealed, and the market makers directly go to the stop loss level. Should I hide my stop loss as well? I am scared to do this, because what if black swan happens and my orders don’t get filled.

    What are my options?

    My relationship manager keeps asking me to start a PAMM account, seeing how well I did, and that scares me more.

    Reply
    • Shaun Overton says

      February 21, 2013 at 08:43

      Hi Edwin,

      Thank you for the question. That’s great to hear that your account is doing so well. Congratulations!

      Most traders using stealth stops try to get the best of both worlds. They keep the real stop loss hidden. Then, for the emergency situations that you mentioned, they place a hard stop several hundred pips away from the current price.

      The emergency stop makes it infeasible for other traders to target due to the distance. It gives you some protection in a runaway market.

      Are you trading with a reputable broker? Do your market orders get filled consistently at the price displayed?

      Reply
      • Edwin Jose Palathinkal says

        February 21, 2013 at 19:46

        I use FXOpen. The market price I get filled in are same as displayed.

        I guess I will keep two stops like you mentioned.

        Thanks for your reply.

        Reply
  3. Larry Shephard says

    June 17, 2015 at 16:19

    I appreciated your article. I have been thinking about this and one thing you omitted was that small traders will get stopped out during stop hunts for larger prey. They may not intentionally look for us, but we will be in the wreckage anyway. The question is: what will happen if the market continues in the direction we got stopped out? Market makers are in the business of making money, period. It makes no difference to them if one whale gets taken out or a whole school of krill, they still eat well. I can see some of the setups, traps that they set. Not enough yet to avoid the most. Thanks much for sharing your experience.

    Reply
    • Shaun Overton says

      June 18, 2015 at 09:41

      Hi Larry,

      Yes, everyone gets stopped out on big moves. The little guys happen to place their orders in the same spots where the larger orders rest. It’s like hiding from the lions in a herd of gazelles.

      –Shaun

      Reply

Trackbacks

  1. Speed up your MetaTrader backtesting | One Step Removed says:
    October 24, 2011 at 22:23

    […] Blog « Stealth Stop and Take Profit […]

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  2. Martingale Experience | One Step Removed says:
    December 30, 2011 at 08:03

    […] Average True Range. This was my answer to excessive volatility.  Finally, I put in logic to have hidden take profits and stops.  This would satisfy my probably unwarranted suspicion of […]

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